Comments on Marc Logemann Blog: Apple is so sick - SnowLeopard removed Java 1.5 si...

I agree with Marc. The weak Java support in Mac OS...

2009-09-12T08:13:15.971+02:00

I agree with Marc. The weak Java support in Mac OSX was one of the reason they made me switch to Ubuntu (and since that... never went back).

I wanted to switch to Java 5 so badly (because of the newly introduced generics) and they made me wait ages. At one point I decided... "enough!"

oooh no. never ending discussion windows vs mac. :...

2009-09-11T20:22:24.157+02:00

oooh no. never ending discussion windows vs mac. :)

but the point goes to marc.

in this situation i also would like to be pissed. apple serves the update not professionally enough.

I never said that Windows had a JDK preinstalled. ...

2009-09-11T19:38:09.643+02:00

I never said that Windows had a JDK preinstalled. You made that point up.

So I guess Apple should make Cocoa a downloadable piece and not preinstall it too, huh? Carbon? OpenGL?

Sun doesn't have to provide a JDK for any OS. They do it because they want marketshare. If they don't want marketshare from the 10% of computer users who use Mac OS, that's fine. It's weird that they want it from the 2% that use Linux instead of the 10% that use Mac OS but it's their business.

But Sun has done so many things wrong when it comes to marketing and managing Java. It's sad.

So you are saying its Suns (Oracles) fault not to ...

2009-09-11T17:56:25.038+02:00

So you are saying its Suns (Oracles) fault not to package the java subsystem for all OS on earth? Are you serious? What should SUN also do? Wash your car or your hair?

Just a few hints for you:

- Apple could easily make donwloadable JDKs for the Mac OS X instead of just Java Update XXX Packages which do scary things. Ask Landon Fuller how easy that is

- Its nice that apple is pre-installing Java but if they fail so miserably to handle updates, they would be better of just providing the URL to the JDK/JRE

To be honest, your arguments are so non-technical and weird that i have the suspiscion that you are just a troll which wants to get me upset even more.

And the Java JDK was NEVER in the Windows distribution as far as i know. So you propably dont even know the difference between JDK and JRE. Feel free to correct me if i am wrong.

You probably didn't notice from my post that I...

2009-09-11T17:41:35.531+02:00

You probably didn't notice from my post that I did install 1.5 because I do support enterprise development.

There is a difference. Java is part of the Mac OS. It is not part of the Windows OS. It was part of the Windows OS at one time, but then they silently removed it in a patch.

It is Sun's fault for not making a downloadable JDK for Macs. If they had that, Apple wouldn't have needed to put it in the OS and you wouldn't be so pissed off that Apple changed the OS during a patch.

yeah, i am pissed off right. My reference to the u...

2009-09-11T15:32:39.483+02:00

yeah, i am pissed off right. My reference to the untrusted source was because of the blog entry mentioned.

I am quite sure that windows never deleted an installed JDK (JRE is something different right...).

It doesnt matter if windows comes pre-installed with java. Who cares? Apple comes with a totally fucked up java implementation. Ask the IntelliJ IDEA guys what they tink of Java for Mac.

WRT to Java 1.5 is old. You really never ever programmed for enterprise environments right? There are thousands of app servers installed which still operate on even 1.4. As a java developer you definitely will support Java 1.5 for a loooooong time to come.

And you dont wonder why you need to restore a backup just to have 1.5 on your machine like you had before the SnowLeopard upgrade? Boy, i also own some apple stocks but you should start be a little bit more unbiased.

You are pissed off so no amount of logic will work...

2009-09-11T15:15:42.305+02:00

You are pissed off so no amount of logic will work at this point.

I didn't download binaries from an untrusted source. I went to my backup and got the ones that were on my machine before the update. If you downloaded the binaries from an untrusted source, that is your problem.

Windows didn't ever do that? Windows had a JVM at one point and they removed it without notice. Now Windows doesn't even come with Java pre-installed.

Java 1.5 is so old at this point. Sun is going to stop support on it soon. It's not that big of a deal.

And yes, the fix was easy and i ve done it long be...

2009-09-11T14:35:57.942+02:00

And yes, the fix was easy and i ve done it long before you posted your valuable insights.

The fact that you need to donwload that from a completely untrusted source and that apple doesnt even offer such a download, speaks for itself. But this seems to be a no-brainer for you guys right? Everyone should download system relevant binaries from untrusted sources, this is real fun!

bad english: "...changing the JDK in the ba...

2009-09-11T14:27:48.111+02:00

bad english:

"...changing the JDK in the background and removing something a developer relies on is just plain wrong."

thats what i wanted to say.

"...how to upgrade production boxes" ?? ...

2009-09-11T14:24:23.113+02:00

"...how to upgrade production boxes" ?? Whats that for a silly comment. First of all, when i am compiling something, i dont think that an OS update changes symlinks, especially not symlinks which are named "1.5". How fucked up is that to link that to a 1.6 JDK ?

There is no need to say that normally you stage something before you put it into production but life is not that easy sometimes. No matter how you look at it, changes the JDK in the background and removing one that a developer relies on is just plain wrong.

How many times have you seen Windows or Linux upgrades do that? Right! _NEVER_

Maybe you'll learn not to upgrade production b...

2009-09-11T14:18:51.549+02:00

Maybe you'll learn not to upgrade production boxes until you know all the issues?

http://wiki.oneswarm.org/index.php/OS_X_10.6_Snow_Leopard

It's an easy fix.